Problems with SynthaSite: One Long Term User Group's Perspective

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  • Updated 10 years ago
Note: I searched and search a a way to submit this privately, across multiple blogs and addresses, and they only took me in circles. Regrets.

This is about problems at SynthaSite that can no longer be handled at the staff level.

Dear Vinny,

We plan to leave SynthaSite. Because many of the issues driving this decision do or will affect other users, I want to leave you with a friendly critique. I hope you will find it of value.

I will be writing on engineering trouble and unresolved issues, with the latter saved for a second letter to avoid distraction from your most urgent problem.

1. Engineering

There is compelling evidence that your setup causes disruptive events to happen in certain areas: Google Analytics, WebMaster Tools, and traffic from sites like Project Wonderful. Engineers (recruited by me from top firms) and I have isolated each element and run tests, and I have retained some of the smartest people I know in the world to assist.

Our theory is that there are problems in the sorting and interpretation of how addresses are received. Specifically, an engineer I retained reports:

"The best thing for Synthasite to do is to consolidate the www.example.com and example.com stats into a single stream of statistics. That's easy for traditional hosts to do because Apache's logging setup bases the target log on the vhost target, not on the request URI (which actually makes it difficult to separate the stats out if you need to do that for some reason), but it sounds like Synthasite is just looking at the domain and doing a strict string match, which is definitely the wrong way to do it.

"At the very least they should be treating www.whatever and whatever as equivalent. The easiest way for them to do that is to always strip out the "www." in the host name."

Without access to the details of your operation, our suggestions must be reviewed by someone who understands both, as a way to confirm or eliminate our theory.

The negative effects we tentatively link to this problem show up first with Google Analytics and WebMaster Tools, and ad sites like Project Wonderful.
Simply put, data reported by SynthsaSite is wrong, and clashes with the data from these other sources. Consider the implications of telling all your users that their analytics data is not reliable. It would seem to be a PR nightmare.

For example, an ad on Project Wonderful reporting 50 hits via their analytics might show only 3 hits on GA (after making suitable adjustments for period and type of data gathered and type of code used, etc.). While some difference is reasonable, a difference of this magnitude is not. But it's common.

We spent several months looking at PW and GA and puzzling before we realized they are the symptoms, not the cause. The owner of PW was extremely concerned and spent numerous hours on this.The cause seems to be faulty reading and reporting at SynthaSite. Comparison with non-SynthaSite GA sites using PW did not duplicate the huge differences in data that we had.

The consequences for this might be disheartening for a small site, but for a large site, they are severe. After cleaning up a few small problems on my sites, we found that a clean test shows huge misrepresentations of data. Recalculation shows I lost 55% of my traffic, 65% of my ad results and untold effects on various GA subreports. I was spending big money on ads and relying on false data to judge their effectiveness. Having isolated the problem and using ad data more carefully, it's clear that I wasted at least two grand on non-performing ads.

As knowledge spread that others, not just me, were losing their WebMaster Tools data and getting anomalies, the common thread was the URL suffix from Synthasite conflicting with the selected suffix by the WT user. As recently as yesterday, your help desk was articulating alternate explanations to clients.

I can't speculate why SynthaSite would make the obsolete "www" the default, but perhaps there are reasons.

I'm sure you appreciate that we feel we have wasted a year of our life with your firm and must rebuild completely. What stings is we had such high hopes, and are disappointed, insulted and disgusted.

Once, people teased us for using SS, but I could see the potential of it being the next WordPress, and more, and said, "Just you wait." Luckily, my friends feel too badly for us now to laugh.

Another comment from our end: "My main issue with www. is just that it's inelegant and a terrible vestige of bygone eras when the web was an experimental academic project, with sites actually having a specific dedicated webserver. These days, since most domains are used solely for web hosting, and in fact most websites don't even have a dedicated server to begin with, calling out "www" specifically is just a dumb bit of miscellani which should have disappeared long ago.

"The least-crappy handling I've ever seen from a major shared-hosting provider is Dreamhost, which allows you to do one of the following:

- www.example.com always redirects to example.com (good idea)
- example.com always redirects to www.example.com (bad idea)
- www.example.com and example.com work exactly the same (terrible idea)

"Having different domains acting the same leads to all sorts of weirdness, especially when it comes to cookies; a cookie for www.example.com is not portable to example.com, for example, and many web application platforms explicitly set the cookie domain (this is why if you go to just projectwonderful.com you can't actually successfully log in, because it's trying to set the cookie for www.projectwonderful.com).

"Distinct subdomains should lead to distinct sites or services or whatever.

"And of course, most external applications are a bit odd about how they catalog subdomains, and there are so many weird hacks out there which try to do the right thing and usually fail miserably. It's not guaranteed that example.com/foo.html and www.example.com/foo.html will be the same page, and if someone prefers the aesthetics of a minimal URL, forcibly adding a www onto any sort of collated stats can be rather upsetting."

2. Unresolved issues of significance

This is an extensive list. I have learned that any list with minor items tends to distract attention from major items, so I will forward this in the future.

3. Attitude

I was going to let this slide. Then I checked my mail today.

There is a "Synthasite attitude." This unsolicited letter is the perfect example:

Hey Bengo,

Thanks as always for keeping us on our toes and demanding excellence and accountability. It is thanks to customers like yourself that we can continue improving our product.

Don't be mistaken - this place is crawling with SynthaSite engineers, which makes it unnecessary for community support to represent anything to us.

Lisa

"We need you, but we really don't." That's it in a sentence. And yet, four months of warnings about profound structural issues have gone unaddressed.

I have 700+ pages of web sites with you. I bet the average is more like five or ten. There is time before the problem blooms on the small sites, but how will you handle it if it blooms on 100 sites, and the media take an interest? Feel free to prove us wrong, but at least resolve whatever the cause is before people get hurt.

Our main SS sites are
psychedelictreehouse.com
lilnyet.com
scratchinpostcomics.com

I would appreciate if some angry staffer doesn't cripple them before we find a new home.
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Bengo

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  • clicked this dumb thing by accident

Posted 10 years ago

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Vinny Lingham

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Hi Ben,

We're sorry to hear that you're leaving SynthaSite, but thank you for taking the time to send us your feedback.

Vinny
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Ed-a-Torials @ Honey Bear Playhomes, Champion

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Hey Bengo

Sucks to see so many issues arise which would make you wish to leave. You for so long have shown yourself to be a great helper and tutor for so many others and actually assisted so many in creating their dreams in building a site. I am sure that you will be sadly missed by your followers... But I do understand your desire for perfection and professionalism...

I will wish you a fond farewell but before you go I wish to clear up something that you said above which may be connected to my recently having my links vanish. You said:

"As knowledge spread that others, not just me, were losing their WebMaster Tools data and getting anomalies, the common thread was the URL suffix from Synthasite conflicting with the selected suffix by the WT user. As recently as yesterday, your help desk was articulating alternate explanations to clients."

While this may be the case for your problem it was not the case for mine. Yesterday, mine in fact had to do with a Google webmaster error which I cleared up by placing the correct URL in its place. Google as it seems had somehow altered the URL which for months had been perfectly fine. After I replaced it and resubmitted the sitemap I was back up with no sitemap errors (there were many before) They were having issues all day yesterday so I know the problem is on Google's side of the fence.

Yes I agree with you that there is a vast discrepancy with the reporting statistics form GA and my other analytic programs. Who's fault or why this is I do not know but I do not shout out from the rooftops that it may or may not be SS at fault. Yes I would like to get it cleared up but is it going to keep me from continuing to build sites here... NO... I hope that somehow something can be done but realistically if you were running the company where would your priorities be? Knowing what is in the basket as a whole and not just the fruit which spilled out onto the table for others to see is a great difference. I am sure there are hundreds of projects being worked on at SS and yes I hope that one day someone can look into the reporting issues deeper but I don't think they deserve some of the comments you dish out. They are people too you know...

To address a quasi threatening comment I read above I will just say that your disclosure of:

"I have 700+ pages of web sites with you. I bet the average is more like five or ten. There is time before the problem blooms on the small sites, but how will you handle it if it blooms on 100 sites, and the media take an interest? Feel free to prove us wrong, but at least resolve whatever the cause is before people get hurt. "

In all my years in law enforcement, military intelligence and government work I have heard many comments made which skirted the deep seated feeling that the person had within them. I would caution you to refrain from such further comments regarding "Media attention" in the future as they are now in the public domain and can be tracked back to you and your sites. It sounds to me that such a comment could be construed as an ultimatum on your part if the issue is left unresolved. To have typed it shows you have thought it and some form of intent is there... I just know that defamation suits can and are costly on the side of the looser... ;)

Anyway... Those are my two cents worth...
Ed
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Bengo

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Ed,

I am the media.

I have perhaps written as much about Synthasite as anyone in the US. I have no problem reporting my experiences publicly, if that will wake people up.

But right now, Synthasite and its incredibly arrogant staff have hurt us badly, and I don't even know how we will recover. Don't be attached to one system, or you are a slave.

I think you are more likely than not misattributing the Webmaster issue to Google. What you describe is rare, and has always been attributable to Synthasite in the past. Maybe my comments weren't clear and maybe I am wrong, but it doesn't ring true to me.

The real problem will be when people wake up to what Synthasite has done with their analytics data. It doesn't show much when you are small, but wait until you discover they were showing you 15,000 bogus visitors. They'll blame Google, but for my analysis, it did not hold up. I remain open to explanation of why they were so negligent, but they are far to proud to answer questions like that from mere customers.

It's quite possible that SS's latest funding is staged or benchmarked. I'll be impressed if they can recover quickly enough from this sequence to get stage two funds released.

You noticed Vinny's PR disaster response to my letter. The fish rots from the head down. Be careful, and thank you for the kind words.

Oh, it just dawned on me, the reason for the weird Vinny response: he's out to dodge a lawsuit. I've put this information in their hands multiple times, I've kept records, they ignored it, and I and perhaps others got squished. They insulated themselves pretty carefully with terms of use, but perhaps not enough to cover up bad actions.

Or perhaps not. I don't sue anyway, I just report.

I strongly recommend all current users demand a tutorial to move from site to ZIP to a fairly universal management template, so they can dress rehearse an emergency escape.
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Ed-a-Torials @ Honey Bear Playhomes, Champion

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Again sad to see you leave...

I can't speak for Vinny but his response is by far a PR disaster he simply was concise with reply. I think that you read too much into this.

I too have discrepancies between the actual visitors and page views when I look back 6 months and see that there are tens of thousands of page views that don't register on GA but show on my other analytic programs. I have to add though that again I seem to feel that this is more a GA issue and not completely a SS issue and I will explain why I think this so that you can look at it from another perspective.

Even though I had a domain name I have always used my SS URL when I posted anywhere online. I never shortened it or had it directed to another one of my pages. (always my index) I did this because I was told by someone that the inclusion of the synthasite.com would benefit me rather than hurt if I was looking to get to the top of my searches faster. As I am on the first page of most of these keywords within months and within the top 5 pages and moving up each week with the others I must say that it did not hurt any. I needed to get to the top so that I could position myself among the first few sites in my field to gain the click through visitors when the economy returns and people start buying playhouses again. I am beginning a campaign to replace this with my domain but needed to get to the top fast and chose to do it this way and it worked.

So as I stated I have always used the http://honeybearplayhomes.synthasite. com/
and no other in my postings throughout the web. Religiously I did this and never changed or altered it. ALL my traffic enters through this and not my www.honeybearplayhomes. com/

Knowing this fact and knowing that two of my other analytics register near 100% accuracy between themselves and in comparison to GA which lost tens of thousands of visitors and many tens of thousands of page views (50,000 in 6 months) I am left to conclude that in my case it is a Google issue. The facts are there and it is simple in that GA is wrong in their accounting of my traffic.

There is no denying that you have these issues. I truly feel for you my unseen friend but please don't be the one shouting the dam is failing when it is not. Issues arise and then get solved it is this way with every business and life... Regardless, priorities are going to be more monetary related especially in this current economy but I don't think that it is the only driving force behind SS. They are constantly adding staff and including new features and this shows that they are wishing to grow and better themselves. Although it is not necessary in my books would it make a difference if they can show how many of these staff members are working on unclassified subjects like errors and bugs. Could they personalize it more? Maybe yes but do they need to I ask... I don't think so personally but as i see it from your perspective as well I am am mixed.

Don't be the boy saying the dam is failing and get everyone worked up thinking about exit strategies when the company is strong enough to get a sizable influx of capital. In this current economy they can only be commended for such a task. I for one have been through too many end game preparations in my life and although needed in those cases here it is like comparing apples to oranges.

I simply wish to share that with you that GA is wrong in my case and I put it to you could they be wrong in part in yours as well?

Happy thoughts ;)
Ed
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Bengo

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Ed, these people have caused me enough headaches. I don't mean to be ungrateful, but I don't have time to discuss all the variables that must be isolated for your scenario to be relevant to mine. Synthasite could clear it up in a moment, but they can't lie (fraud, or whatever) and they don't seem to know the facts (some knowledge deficit perhaps). The silence is telling: their pride does not allow a mere user to address a problem that has them stumped, so it gets swept under the rug, like it has been since fall. Along with about three dozen other things that never get fixed, and which cause people to become irate if you dare raise them twice.
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Bengo

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The most honest answer I got was "I can't think of anything that would cause that." Fine. But a bunch of other people can, and from a user point of view it is pretty serious, so why not check it out? Apparently there are too many pride issues involved. Hey, it's not my problem as soon as I get relocated. Even if I am knocked off line for a while, escaping the torment and delays and other annoying behavior will be awesome.
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Bengo

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OK, It's come to me, I have a metaphorical story that sums up Synthasite:

You are walking down the street. A Synthasite employee offers you a product. You accept.

They punch you in the nose. You say, "You jerk! What did you do that for?"

The Synthasite employee says, "No answers until you apologize for calling me a jerk."

You apologize. They say, in the snootiest tone known to man, "In the interest of moving forward, we will set aside the fact that you called us a jerk. Would you like some help?"

You say yes.

They punch you in the nose.

Until about 9/1/08, I'd had a good experience for nine months. But the promises were no longer kept, the critical items never delivered, the suggestions disappeared into the black. Frustrated, I had my "You jerk" moment, I was never forgiven for it, and instead of being smart enough to SHUT UP and let me wander on my way, they kept drilling me with that precious attitude until I realized that whatever it is that ails them, they're stuck there, and I am not (for long).

It's that simple. Of course, it's a big group, and some are fine and some are awful, but on average, that's how it has been, and even the ones you think are terrific have a church tone that wouldn't sell fish to starving alley cats if it was used in America.

If the time ever comes when the wagging finger of subhuman scum is pointed at you, my advice is to bite it off.

Over and out. I have found an exciting alternative, and I am eager to test it out. But now you have a very precise version of my adventure.
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Ed-a-Torials @ Honey Bear Playhomes, Champion

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As a whole and on my limited budget I am quite pleased with what I have been able to accomplish using Synthasite.

I as well at some distant time wish to have a professionally built site and possibly host it on private servers but until that time I continue to plug away as best I can with what I have. For many this is true and all that we have at our disposal is appreciated. Problems are sure to come up and I hope that they will be addressed but I am realistic in that I am one out of a million and there are bigger fish to fry than one person’s issues.

I liken it to my time spent in the military and the countless thousands of Marines I have had serve under me. I had issues come up and could not handle them all and some of those that I could not were hurt that I could not help them. It is life and business I think... Not every person’s issues can be met in the timely manner that they wish.

I am sad that you leave on such a note but know that your tutelage will be sadly missed...
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Ed-a-Torials @ Honey Bear Playhomes, Champion

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Well regardless... Know that there are many in the forums that will consider your leaving to be a loss but you need to do what is best for you and your business.

Good luck with your endeavors my comical friend... I wish you a happy and fruitful business and life...

On a personal note: It has been over 15 since I had any of my political cartoons published but someday soon I hope to pick it back up and maybe a couple hundred newspapers to carry them in along the way. The internet is a great resource to showcase my art but it is different to see my work in print. I guess I am just old school huh???

Ed
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Casey Stubbs

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I am not technical enough to understand all of this but I check my two stats programs and My GA stats are much lower than my other Stats Which is http://www.statcounter.com

I am wondering does this affect my affiliate links or my google adsense?

Casey Stubbs--Winners Edge Trading
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Bengo

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Probably not, because it is probably the stats programs are high and GA is about correct. This is the case in the vast majority of comparison studies of GA and other systems, with the exception of Yahoo, which tends to hang pretty close to Google. Ideally, you become pals with a server side analytics expert to check things out, and another one to check the first one. Even experts routinely mis-set server side systems.
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Hey Ben,

Your valued input will be missed here on GS.
In case you do leave, I designed you a new avatar.
Sorry, I just couldn't resist. Ha, ha



Hope you get a laugh out of it and change your mind.
The joker in me just wanted to "lighten up" this thread.
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Nice humor, Boomer!
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Ed-a-Torials @ Honey Bear Playhomes, Champion

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I just had to bring out these two handsome men again... ;)


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hahahahaha...nice mr. ed. i like it very much. you made my day soooo funny!
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Casey Stubbs

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I would appreciate it if one of the synthasite employees could address some of Bengos issues here with out it turning into something ugly. Lets remain professional and not get ugly.

The reason I would like some answers is because I have a serious web page. This is a business for me and not a hobby. I want to know now if I will be able to have a first class website for a business on synthasite now and in the future.

So Far the experience has been great and I think you guys at synthasite are working hard. However I am expecting big things for my website and I can't afford to have this thing blow up on me later.

Casey Stubbs--Winners Edge Trading
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Bengo

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I was thinking I should respect your request for a staff answer, but since it's not coming (yet), I'll tell you what I think, since my sites are to be the core of a business too.

The fact is, you are likely to change you sites a lot over time. If they are small, you can recreate them elsewhere fairly easily, though they are not what I would call "portable." SynthaSite is an easy way to start fast, and the price is right. That's the pro.

The con is that the company is only as good as its people, and the influx associated with record growth has not impressed me (and I have hired and fired and trained hundreds). I would rather be paying a fee to SynthaSite than endure employee arrogance, and I am especially unimpressed by the ones who take offense if you are upset because they gave you a wrong answer with complete confidence. I'm not well-traveled enough to understand if there is a culture clash or what, but on conduct alone, I would continue to plan my departure. They need a grown-up CEO, too.

On tech, I have been waiting and waiting for items that could be installed in a day, and have been tormented by programming issues I have to research and resolve at great time and expense. You can see how those were received: The CEO's "goodbye, get lost" tone is pretty obvious, meaning SynthaSite users face the possible prospect of incorrect analytics data for their sites. That really screwed us up, and though they were kind enough to assign someone from engineering to help us, we weren't impressed. He wasn't awful but he was just good enough to be quite disappointing, and pretty wrapped up in his own world. (He angrily denies this last charge in a letter to me.) Failure to resolve this issue to our satisfaction is one reason we are departing.

For SynthaSite to succeed, they need revenue, and selling fancy editions of templates, styles, widgets, etc. is reasonable. I don't mind paying for them. What I do mind is having to cycle through multiple updates of a 300 page site update without a key style because it just is always coming and never arrives. I can be very patient, but attempts to get a guesstimate have gotten nowhere. This may be sound business policy, but regardless, if did give us a lot of troubles. I would like to see the next updates, but I am afraid they may be like the recently recalled updates: under-tested, with a failure to anticipate some pretty obvious conflicts that would occur.

All this is academic unless you know where to go or how to proceed. I am testing some things I cannot yet report on, so I can't send you anywhere. As a host, SynthaSite has been pretty good, with one major partial outage and some short scheduled stuff. It's pretty much true that all hosts suck and will drive you crazy, so this is a pretty good accomplishment, if you set aside the other issues.

The whole phenomenon of being thin skinned, demanding apologies and then neither reciprocating nor being gracious is new for me, and would kill the deal right there. Other people will get along fine and won't have complex sites that will cause them a lot of stress if SynthaSite staffers ignore their posts because they feel intimidated (a reason given to me).

In a company this size, there have to be a lot of decent ones, but there is also an obvious corporate culture forming that is not going to export well. With respect for founder/CEO Vinny Lingard, I think they should consider a more mature and experienced CEO.

I can't tell you what to do, but I think anyone building a serious site on SynthaSite should have a comprehensive "Plan B" and a full understanding of the time and expense required to change if needed.

Sometimes you need help, and have a great experience. Sometimes you are neglected, cut down to size and left to the vultures. Not knowing which we will get is what has been the most punishing for us.

Good luck with your business. I hope you feel I did my best to be fair, but you must draw your own conclusions. The successes are well known, and did not bear repetition. The complaints should be repeated as long and loud as possible, because getting the message through faces a Gibraltar of resistance. The human resources/engineer chemistry issue is always tough (kind of a left and right brain thing), but that doesn't mean you have to have staff who lose self-control.

Note any of my sites, which have my email, and check in this spring if you want to know what course we chose and how we made out. One is lilnyet.com. (BTW I am not 100% sure we are going to survive this, but we'll try. Our plan to leave is firm.)
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Ed-a-Torials @ Honey Bear Playhomes, Champion

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Jeez and I thought I was long winded... Enough is enough I say. I think we all get your point... Yes you are upset, pissed off, feeling left out and frustrated. We get it already. You have explained yourself over and over again. How many times can someone try to say a hundred different ways the same thing?

I am beginning to take serious offense at your tone and choice comments aimed at those individuals who assist countless hundreds of thousands fulfill their dreams. Not everyone is going to be helped 100% of the time Bengo and I know that you know this. A FREE service is just that FREE and the help we receive from Synthasite is far better than that I get from companies I am paying thousands of dollars a year to for a paid service...

As far as your replies they are sounding more and more like the intimidating comment you spoke of. I see it clearly how you could get under someones skin and even the Pope would tell you to get lost after you berated all the Priests in every church from here to Rome.

I personally understand where you are coming from with wishing to have a long term and most profitable business. Had it not been for spending the last 10 years as my late Mothers 24/7 medical and personal caregiver I would never have had to sell off a million+ dollar delivery business to ensure she was cared for. I gave her 10 years of my life and what resources I had to keep her alive and now I have to begin anew and in a recession no less...

I say that unless you are capable of becoming a member of Mensa, founding a most popular website builder and raising tens upon tens of millions of dollars for the company and product you love... Get off the pot so to speak and stop talking bad about the man... He has done more than most at such a young age and should be given more credit and accolades than he is getting. If life was different for me and I still had my delivery company I would have gladly invested some of its assets in Synthasite because I see a sure thing in their business approach and model. I gave that life up when I chose my Mother over wealth and have not looked back since...

Maybe there are underlying issues at hand that we know nothing about but it seems that the road you are taking is paved with ill will and malice. Could it be that you are the one with the issues and your problems while possibly true and real are in part caused in part by yourself? Just a thought...

I for one have heard enough of the belittling and over judgmental comments in the majority of your posts as of late. Please stop as we all have heard your opinions, thoughts and concerns. Move one already and let the employees answer for themselves.

Happy freekin site building
Ed
I.Q. 141
Former cop
Former U.S. Marine
Former Gov. Analyst
Former large business owner
Former world traveler and sadly now... once again current small business owner...
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Bengo

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Thank you for your thoughts, but I was speaking to Casey.
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Connie Anderson

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You guys are a piece of work. I'm not hanging around this.